Jedi Pastor Ken

To the unnamed person... Who among us went and sin...

2012-05-11T08:39:47.237-04:00

To the unnamed person... Who among us went and sinned no more? Sin in unavoidable. Sure we can strive to not commit sins that we are aware of... What about those we are not aware of? What did you eat for breakfast? You probably sinned no matter the answer... The point is this... Grace and mercy saves us... Not being without sin. For startes, who is to say that homosexuality is sinful? Certainly the opinion of people who wrote thousands of years ago cannot be your only authority... This is an issue between the individual and God. As the church, we accept, welcome, and extend grace to all... Love does actually win...

Thanks for commenting Social Pariah. Really good ...

2012-05-09T09:39:08.918-04:00

Thanks for commenting Social Pariah. Really good thoughts.

On societal double standards, I think, based on how we develop and cultures evolve, society will always have double standards. Maybe even in the Church we will always struggle with it as well. It seems to have been the case for the past 2,000 years. I grow concerned when people speak so vehemently in defense of their position in such a way that God seems to have double standards. This is why I think Oden's point is so profound (and very much to the point at hand for the UMC and what my friend was bringing up).

I'm not sure about the use of "protest" to describe how we talk about sin. And I would say, to not call sin out, would also be inconsistent. A faithful reading of the Biblical text and tradition indicate it is appropriate and right to do so.

My friend Brad called me out in high school for using foul language. The truth of correction is not contingent on the condition of the bearer of the news.

Maybe this is your point regarding "protest." For one to "protest" another person or groups sinfulness is certainly not compassionate or helpful. If no sin is greater than any other then we must as God's people, be more consistent and compassionate.

If we fail to stop and listen, we may not realize that while we may condemn the sexual acts of a LGBT person, the Holy Spirit is actually working on the area of say, greed. And what if through an LGBT, the Holy Spirit spoke a word of loving correction to a straight person on their sin of avarice? This is one of the reasons there is no trust. We still don't care enough about another person to listen.

Again, thanks for the great thoughts! Would love to hear more.

To say "grace is accompanied by an expectatio...

2012-05-09T01:12:16.861-04:00

To say "grace is accompanied by an expectation" is to say grace is contingent upon obedience to the Law. And yet in Scripture we read that grace is freely given, that there is zero condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Sure, we can expect ourselves to constantly improve, turning away from evils and daily choosing to lead better lives but is there a soul in human form that is capable of sinning no more?

To Oden's point: "The deficiencies of human willing do not negate the sufficiency of grace offered." There seems to be a double standard in society. The homosexual is accused of not trying hard enough to flee his sin while less taboo sins are more easily overlooked.

Either Christ died for all sins, or Christ died in vain. From where I sit, not a single human being can protest the lifestyle of another without himself being in breach of the law.

(This is a response pulled from FB to clarify). As...

2012-05-08T21:46:13.878-04:00

(This is a response pulled from FB to clarify).
As I listen to my friend, and I think my point is made in my blog, the issue we share is our understanding of grace. Further for me, an ultimate concern is the demonstration of our distrust for each other and ultimately, a great lack of trust in God.

I believe the issue of grace is critical and central. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing on sin issues here and I am being vague (I discovered the word vague today, and I like it, a lot...sorry ;) ) I surely have no problem about the calling in Methodist terms to go on to perfection. BUT where does God's grace meet us? Only after we deal with the sin in our lives or before? Are we really going to throw out Prevenient grace from our vocabulary because if we do, we better close our table because it isn't open anymore - not truthfully anyway. Wesley argued from Philippians 2:12-13 that, "we can work because God is working in us. (On Working Out Our Own Salvation)"

Thomas Oden put it well, "The deficiencies of human willing do not negate the sufficiency of grace offered." This is what I hear my friend expressing. He didn't ask me or the church to condone his life but do we really believe in grace? Because if we don't, then why would he trust anything else you or I say as true?

Thanks for the additional thoughts on grace Stepha...

2012-05-08T21:43:58.992-04:00

Thanks for the additional thoughts on grace Stephani.

I had to copy this statement from another pastor f...

2012-05-08T16:57:13.452-04:00

I had to copy this statement from another pastor friend of mine, "People who put restrictions & limits on grace are people who just haven't been broken yet." Grace is not anything other than God's love and mercy given to us as a gift - free and clear with no conditions. It's not an if...then proposition. If it is, then we're in serious trouble, because no one is worthy, and we all "persist in corruption." (Unless, that is, you are a perfect being.) I have to trust in God - God's grace, love, and mercy - that God wants me to love everyone no matter what, just as God loves me. I had hoped that the global UMC leadership could have agreed on that as well. Ken is correct that fear and pain are keeping them from trusting God. Love conquers both.

So you have a different understanding of grace tha...

2012-05-08T15:18:43.823-04:00

So you have a different understanding of grace than is held by Wesleyan theology and our United Methodist Church as expressed at General Conference?

Oh, I didn't miss that. It was the reason I re...

2012-05-08T15:18:26.728-04:00

Oh, I didn't miss that. It was the reason I replied

Thanks for missing my point farther in the post. I...

2012-05-08T15:18:12.076-04:00

Thanks for missing my point farther in the post. I didn't think I'd need to highlight it as well so I'll pull it out:

"My concern? The state of our trust in God. But I don't say it as a condemnation on our denomination - I say it as a symptom of who we are demonstrating ourselves to be. We are children, still babies some of us. We remain in our early stages of moral and spiritual development, surrounded by symbols of our past successes and our present toys and we worry about whether we will get our way. We are only living out our faith as we have grown into it. I hope we all realize we're not done growing up yet and that gives me hope."

I'm also at a loss to respond to "gay friend." Can we not have gay friends? Do gay friends not exist?

Grace is accompanied by an expectation: Go, and si...

2012-05-08T15:17:26.863-04:00

Grace is accompanied by an expectation: Go, and sin no more. Grace is the wrath of God, stayed by Love - the purpose of which is profound and total transformation of the human being, not the bestowal of permission for the human being to persist in its corruption.

To a "gay friend" I would say: You can trust the church not to condemn you, and to expect you to go, and sin no more.

Thanks so much Trudy! I'm glad the words reso...

2012-05-06T15:31:52.105-04:00

Thanks so much Trudy! I'm glad the words resonated.

I'm curious, if you had an opportunity to explore spiritual direction in your lay speaking ministry? Assuming your in the Missouri conference, is it a part of conference discussions or opportunities?

Nice! Blessings to you on your own journey! I ha...

2012-05-06T14:02:57.156-04:00

Nice! Blessings to you on your own journey! I have discovered exactly what you so eloquently spoke-there is so much more!

2012-05-01T09:52:53.656-04:00

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I'm so glad to hear that Bob. It did seem to ...

2012-04-28T19:58:29.072-04:00

I'm so glad to hear that Bob. It did seem to be it has been helpful to those of you serving on your end. I just wasn't sure. If those needed connections are happening, then that is great.

To me, it appears, we're eavesdropping without all the information and getting our collective underwear in a bunch when it isn't helpful or productive.

If it is helping there, I'm glad, that answers one of my questions.

Interestingly, the social media connection has bee...

2012-04-28T16:19:40.409-04:00

Interestingly, the social media connection has been exceptionally helpful so far and adds a dimension that was missing during the last General Conference. Our delegation is using Twitter to communicate as people are scattered over different committees. Folks back home are linking to a wide variety of news stories and impressions from delegates and those who are here. No, it isn't face to face (it is here, for the most part) but it is connecting people who have never been as linked before, allowing them to chat and ask questions in real time. I certainly see your point, but we're also seeing the upside here, too.

Thanks TB. I've enjoyed reading your blog and...

2012-04-27T11:15:39.528-04:00

Thanks TB. I've enjoyed reading your blog and especially hearing younger voices speak out. Keep up your great work and writing!

What wonderful reflections on personal discernment...

2012-04-26T21:47:11.198-04:00

What wonderful reflections on personal discernment and spiritual development.

Many of the things I seem to be musing about lately--although not in the depth or breadth of, I am sure, you are in your Spiritual Direction training.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge, thoughts, and reflections.

And thank you for linking back to me :)!

Maybe the reason for not knowing is we've not ...

2012-04-14T10:36:40.218-04:00

Maybe the reason for not knowing is we've not chosen to enter into the possibility. It does mean hard, inner work. It is also NOT what is emphasized in our study or practice but is a choice.

My own journey has led me here. I have experienced both betrayal and benefits at the risk of trusting others.

I think you are right on with the issue that power is playing in our denomination right now. There is a lot of great writing and work, it just isn't current, not popular so it is ignored.

Is it a gift? It certainly is a grace. God has offered, we just need to respond and that is a choice we must make I think.

Ken, thank you for extending my thinking on these ...

2012-04-14T10:18:06.392-04:00

Ken, thank you for extending my thinking on these topics.

I've been wrestling since I wrote it with the idea that the biblical word for "faith" can also man "trust." Perhaps trust in each other is not something that we can do, but is only a gift from God.

I don't know.

Thanks Holly, I appreciate your comments and to kn...

2012-03-13T20:36:36.807-04:00

Thanks Holly, I appreciate your comments and to know the message resonates. It has been a lesson learned the hard way in my own life by following preachers who are focused on leadership.

I'm not sure I'd go with heresy (not sure mind you), but it has certainly gotten the focus off Jesus and on ourselves.

Thank you for this insightful post. I have come t...

2012-03-13T20:17:55.603-04:00

Thank you for this insightful post. I have come to believe that the emphasis on "leadership" in the church is a new heresy. It distorts the Gospel. Jesus calls us to follow him, even if it leads to a cross and suffering rather than to the acclaim of others. Obedience to the call of Christ is a badly needed corrective in today's church.

Last Paragraph should have read: "... it sen...

2011-11-02T14:03:42.341-04:00

Last Paragraph should have read:

"... it sends one down the road of [focus] on self and your own agenda (Purpose/Prosperity). Thus we become trapped again in narcissistic thought. Purpose/Prosperity driveness forfeits Christian freedom (pg 116)."

As I understand it from Mark Ellingsen, it is grou...

2011-11-02T14:02:06.477-04:00

As I understand it from Mark Ellingsen, it is grounded very much in grace.

Purpose-driven/Prosperity-driven thought, Ellingsen argues, ultimately keeps us focused on our self - our purpose. So where as Puritan thought (and practice) leans too far across the line of Peligianism, this Lutheran thought of 'brave sinning' says in essence,

"...forget yourself and concentrate on God (pg 65)."

God is a God who affirms us as sinners. Of course, it is Augustinian in that everything we do is tainted in sin. Still, there is a real Wesleyan bent toward grace in abundance(more than I think the author admits).

In true Lutheran spirit, the author gives us some of these great words from Martin:

"When you are assailed by gloom, despair, or a troubled conscience you should eat, drink, and talk with others. If you can find help yourself by thinking of a girl, do so."

Brave sinning means not taking yourself so seriously. Don't start looking for a formula for once you do, it sends one down the road of folks on self and your own agenda (Purpose/Prosperity). Thus we become trapped again in narcissistic thought. Purpose/Prosperity driveness forfeits Christian freedom (pg 116).

I'd love to hear more about the idea of sinnin...

2011-11-02T12:10:47.924-04:00

I'd love to hear more about the idea of sinning bravely. I've heard the term a lot, but not really every understood it.

Great thoughts Ryan! As we grow older, hopefully ...

2011-10-04T15:05:02.792-04:00

Great thoughts Ryan! As we grow older, hopefully we grow wiser. And IF (that is a BIG IF) we grow wiser, then we'll come to understand and live in the contradictions.

Keep maintaining those friendships and look for people farther on the journey who are okay with contradictions. You might have to look even beyond your friends to find such a person. Keep asking questions! Those are good ones!